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 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases 

Which releases do you prefer?
Original vinyl 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
8-track 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Original CD edition 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Cassette 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Gold Standard Collector's Edition 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Definitive Edition Remaster 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
Classic Records Audiophile 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2007 Remasters 43%  43%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 7

 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases 
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Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 2:39 pm
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Post 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
Now that all the dust has settled after the release of the box sets, which Genesis releases do you prefer? Your original vinyl release or perhaps the 1st CD release? Or maybe the 2007 versions are the new definitive versions for you? Which version do you reach for when you need your Genesis fix?

I recently listened to 4 versions of Abacab:

the original UK vinyl release,
the original cd release,
the Gold Standard collector's edition
the 2007 remaster.

Personally, I preferred the Gold Standard edition, which was remastered from the original master tapes back in 1993 by Ted Jensen. It was a more dynamic experience than the normal CD but the album still retained its original 'feel'. The 2007 remaster seemed almost too 'beefed up'. Abacab on steroids.

I don't know if 'Classic Records, inc'. have produced one of their Audiophile releases of Abacab but I'd be interested in hearing it - I've heard their Foxtrot release which is very nice as are their PG releases.

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Last edited by davidraphael on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:10 am
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
BTW,

If anyone is interested, the PG audiophile releases are mostly available now, with others to be released later this year. ie,

Peter Gabriel Four (security),
45rpm,
200g Clarity Vinyl,
Four Discs Set
$50.00 SRP
Dec 28, 2010

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http://www.classicrecords.com/

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Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:25 am
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
I can't say I've heard all of those different versions. Bottom line though, I think I'd have go with the original vinyl versions. I'm definitely an 'analogue' kind of guy!

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Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:20 am
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
If we go for the stereo mixes, I vote for the 1994 DER series - but then, I don't know all of these, I only have heard the DER, the 2007 version, the vinyl version and for some albums the original CD mix.

About the vinyl versions - I'm NOT a vinyl guy. Cracks and pops from dust simply doesn't do it for me - I know some call it charm and atmosphere, I call it noise.

I know the DER versions got a lot of hate for excessive noise reduction, but personally, I never really noticed this. Maybe I didn't know what to listen for? I find the DER's to have excellent dynamic mix which is something I really like - particularly in the live recordings (Seconds Out and TSL have some really amazing dynamic mixes, which is something you, sadly, almost never see these days).

The 2007 stereo mixes are excessively compressed and limited, which kills the music for me. To make things worse, I find high ends to be increased to much to give an almost unpleasant sound to some songs (like Eleventh Earl Of Mar and All In A Mouse's Night). This was deffinitely an issue that was worst with the blue box - Wind And Wuthering really suffers from this. The Green box sounds good (and also wins from the fact that several of the old records like Tresspass and NC was lacking in the old masters), and the live box sounds excellent - but ironically, I'm not sure if I find it sounding better than the old mixes - or just louder, at least for the newer records.

I like the 5.1 mixes albeit these also, in some cases, suffer. Still, the 5.1 mixes is a different story in many ways.

PS: The poll does not work!?

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Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:06 am
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
I never understood the objection to the DERs. I preferred them to the original CDs in every case except for Trespass (oddly, the Trespass DER was never available domestically in the USA, so mine is an import).

The very high end had always been reduced in volume on cassettes (which couldn't reach that high) and on vinyl (unless you had a brand-new pressing from Japan played with a perfect needle). As far as I can tell, bands from the 1950s until the 1980s knew that this was the case. But when CDs came out, these high notes were restored to the volume they had on the original master tapes. For those of us who were accustomed to the vinyl and cassette sound, it seemed as if these high frequencies were suddenly boosted. 99% of the time, this meant the very high end of the cymbals, and the squeaking sound when a guitarist slid his fingers along the strings of an acoustic guitar.

Meanwhile, beginning in the 1980s (with Phil Collins' drumming on Gabriel's third album, actually -- followed by King Crimson and then many other bands) cymbals started to be used less and less in progressive rock. So just as I had become used to hearing less cymbals, all my old 1970s albums on CD appeared with an incessant cymbal clicking running through the entire album. At first this drove me crazy and I stuck with vinyl. Finally in the mid-1990s I gave in. And now I have a lot of CDs and a small apartment, which makes vinyl so inconvenient that I never listen to it anymore.

So, when I think of the difference between vinyl and CD, I don't think of the subtle analog difference that people with good ears can hear on an audiophile sound system (which I certainly can't afford). Rather, I think of the omnipresent cymbals that were added to all my old albums. And of course, the fact that all my wonderful gatefold album art has been reduced to the size of a postcard.

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Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:39 am
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
Interesting points, Babylon5 - so do you actually prefer the original vinyl versions in terms of sound, or have you gotten so used to the CD versions that you won't notice those issues anymore and refer that one?

And how do you feel about the high end of the 2007 version compared to the 1994 DER's? For me, the 2007 lost out to the loudness war, where compression and high/low end EQ was added mindlessly to oompf the bass and keep the brightness, which ment that the mid-range was lost from the mix.

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Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:21 pm
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
I'm not brilliant at spotting the differences between all these different versions.
Several of my vinyl Genesis albums I originally bought second-hand (anyone else here remember Beano's in Croydon, England's largest second hand record store?). So I got used to expecting to hear pops and crackles in certain places right from when I first bought them.
But I loved those records, especially Trick of the Tail, with the thick 'wallpaper-y' cardboard sleeve, and all those drawings and the wonderful lyrics inside the gatefold.

And one thing I really miss from the vinyl (and this might sound strange) is the gap between Entangled and Squonk. On the vinyl there was more of an echo - a prolonged sound of the last note of Entangled. And the way the first note of Squonk came in always sent shivers down my spine. All the CD (and DVD) versions have made that gap fractionally longer, and lost the slight echo.

So although the vinyl was the way I first heard the music, and I loved those records with the Famous Charisma Label Mad Hatter, and the sleeves... I do welcome being able to hear the music properly with no pops, crackles, jumping grooves, etc.
And the 5.1 mixes are wonderful because I can hear all the instruments and every note that was played, and they have brought the whole thing alive for me! :D

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:27 pm
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
Tulyar is right - those vinyl echoes were done away with at the advent of CD. I also recall that there would be a 'pre-echo' - songs would start, very faded in the background, just before they started properly. I remember that happening on Beatles albums

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Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:54 pm
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
Tulyar wrote:
Several of my vinyl Genesis albums I originally bought second-hand (anyone else here remember Beano's in Croydon, England's largest second hand record store?).


Well well well...what a small world it is...Yes Beano's, great second hand record store...(Almost bought "The Knife" single from there in the mid seventies...They wanted a fiver for it...But there was a big scratch on side one :cry:

Bought and traded lots of vinyl there, over the years :)

Your not alone on this one Tulyar...Ah yes....The space between Entangled and Squonk....Just not there on CD..A moment lost forever unless you still play the vinyl..BTW does the new vinyl version of ATOTT have it :question:

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:21 pm
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
I'm curious about the pre-echo...I've never noticed that on albums (of which I have many), but I have on some cassettes. I always figured that it resulted from a transfer of the magnetic signature from the tape rolled up against itself. Could the pre-echo on the record be an artifact of the master tape from which they were transferred? (Hope we're not hijacking this thread too far).

Keeping in the spirit of the thread...I'm afraid that I only have one copy of many albums, so I can't do much of a comparison. But I was never enough of an audiophile to be anything but happy with the DER's, which most of mine are.

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Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:56 pm
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
I don't know if I'd prefer the vinyl today. Unfortunately, ever since I went back to grad school, I haven't been able to afford an apartment where I could turn up the music loud (and so there's no reason to buy a good stereo).

So I only listen to music on my cheap stereo at home with low-to-medium volume, or in my car with loud volume but road noise in the background. In either case, the dynamics are lost, along with the very highs (and at home, also the very lows).

That actually makes the 2007 stereo mixes nice, because the loss of dynamic range is a good thing at low volume. At low or medium volume, I don't hear the lyrics at the end of "Los Endos" on the first two CD versions, but with the remixes I do.

I sure do miss loud music with no background noise! But what can I do. Next time I'm home in L.A. I might visit an audiophile store just to sit in their "rich people welcome" soundproof room and listen to one or two tracks from the 5.1 mixes... if they let me.

I guess I see the 2007 mixes as a new version, not a replacement. Most of the time, this is the same reason that I listen to bootlegs -- it gives a new mix to an old song, which is a great way to get reacquainted with a song I already know very well.

Regarding the pre-echo: I always assumed that this was bleed-through from one groove to the next: just like when you write on paper with a pen, you leave an impression on the opposite side, the pressing in, say, groove # 437 has an effect on grooves 436 and 438. If this is the cause, the pre-echo should begin exactly 1.80 seconds before Squonk. Can someone verify this?

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Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:55 am
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
David, it wont let me vote, any reason why? :question:

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Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:23 pm
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
I've checked the settings and have no idea why it won't work. We need someone like Simon. And if someone like Simon can't help we might actually need Simon.

:crazy:

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Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:27 pm
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Post Re: 2007 Remasters/Definitive Editions/Original releases
Sorry about that, I hadn't seen that your poll wasn't working :(

'tis fixed now though :)

-S

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Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:57 pm
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