Forums @ Genesis-Movement

Printed inner sleeves
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Author:  davidraphael [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

Continuing the hunt for early, album-specific (rather than record label adverts for other albums) printed inner-sleeves...

David Bowie's 1972 re-release of Space Oddity...

and the earlist I found is Jethro Tull's 1971 album Aqualung (or was that just a lyric sheet?)

Author:  babylon5 [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

davidraphael wrote:
Continuing the hunt for early, album-specific (rather than record label adverts for other albums) printed inner-sleeves...

To my amazement, there's a Grammy award for "best album notes". Here's a list of winners and nominees.

So from 1964 onward, this gives us a list of four to eight LPs per year that were considered to have superb cover art, liner notes, gatefold sleeves, and the like. I think it's likely that once album-specific inner sleeves began, we would find them among these nominees.

I picked a few of these 1960s albums at random, searched for them on Ebay, and looked for Ebay sellers who include pictures of the outer and inner sleeve. And so far, I haven't found any with printed inner sleeves. At least one has a large booklet with it, but no album-specific printed sleeves yet.

Author:  davidraphael [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

Liner notes usually referred to the text on the backs of albums (see any jazz or classical LP from the 1950s onwards).

I'm really going to be very interested to find out who had the 1st printed innersleeve.

The Beatles certainly didn't* (and they were about as big as it gets - and as experimental) so I'm guessing that the 1st printed inner sleeve was post-Beatles in 1970 or 1971.

*Sgt pepper had a pink swirl design, but there's nothing that truly makes it identifiably album-specific art work.

I wonder if Hipgnosis created the 1st inner sleeve?

Alternatively, it may be someone like Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald, et al.

Author:  babylon5 [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

What I found by looking on Ebay is that, through the 1960s, it was common for the back of the cover to be filled with words. The list of songs, the list of musicians, an essay about how the album was recorded, or some sort of hype for the musicians. I think that the result was that there wasn't really much left to put on an inner sleeve. If it was extra special they would include a booklet inside.

I agree with you that 1970 or 1971 is most likely when printed inner sleeves started. My new theory is that what happened was that some artists wanted to fill the back of the cover with art rather than words. When they did this, then they needed a place to put the words, but for some reason they didn't want to have a booklet. So then someone came up with the idea of putting them on the inner sleeve.

Author:  Tulyar [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

dvdgenesis wrote:
While we're discussing the minutiae of collecting, what is everyone's opinion of the rear "j-card" insert on CDs? Do most of you keep your CDs in the jewel cases, or do you use some kind of sleeves or binders? Personally, I use Univenture ViewPaks, and most of the time the j-card is completely redundant, both in terms of information and artwork, so I throw those away. I do have some CDs that are "stuck" since the back insert is the only place the track list appears, and I plan to start using DiscSox for those.

Would love to hear from other collectors on how they handle storing their CDs and other media.

Given the way you are, by your own admission, a bit of an "OCD" collector, and (like lots of us) you are quite keen on album packaging and artwork, etc, I'm intrigued that you "throw away" parts of the packaging that you consider redundant! :o
And am I right in recollecting that you also "threw away" the CDs that came in the latest 5.1 versions of the Genesis albums (or have I got that wrong)?

To answer your question, I keep my CDs in the packaging they came in, and store them on two long shelves in my hallway, high up on the wall and only reachable by leaning over the banister from the staircase, or standing on a chair!
Some years ago I had some plastic CD racks with slots - and any non-standard ones wouldn't fit. So for a couple I threw away an outer cardboard sleeve (PG's Long Walk Home was one such) - an act of vandalism I have regretted ever since!

It doesn't matter that my CD collection is hard to reach, because my main storage is on my computer hard drive, backed up on an external hard drive, and all on the hard drive of my 30gb Creative Jukebox, which is how I listen to them. Yes, I admit it... I listen to mp3s. I very rarely get a chance to sit down in the sitting room and put on a CD or DVD. Mainly I have music on in the car or at my desk - for which my Creative Jukebox is ideal.

Author:  dvdgenesis [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

Umm... (pauses for a long while contemplating the intent of the last post)...

It really depends on what you consider "OCD", and I understand that it's a bit of an insult to anyone who actually suffers from that condition for me or anyone else to joke about it, so let me just explain it this way:

I enjoy the minutiae of collecting, as many of us do. Things like CD3s, slimline CD5s, picture discs, etc. really appeal to me for the "coolness" factor of being out of the ordinary, and in many cases a more sleek "compact" format. For some, "OCDness" manifests itself in keeping every element of the original packaging, whether that's something as simple as a slipcase, or actually making a careful slit in the cellophane to remove the product, but otherwise keeping even the shrinkwrap intact (seriously, people do this). For me, the primary goal was making sure that I don't have a lot of redundant "fat" lying around. Most of this was because my CDs used to be in cardboard boxes with the original packaging intact.

As I explained before, the rear inserts of CDs are more often than not identical to the back of the booklet, especially on early releases. As I've also mentioned, I now use Univenture Viewpaks, which I've always liked, and are now even thinner because they use polypropylene instead of vinyl. Since an extra CD doesn't add a lot to the space my collection takes up, unique items like reissues of FGTR or pressed bootlegs are things I wouldn't buy before because they'd add another 1/4" at least to my limited storage, and I'd never listen to them. Now I feel like I can buy them, but I'm still not up for having multiple copies with nearly identical artwork, i.e., the original CDs, the 1994 remasters, and the remixed CDs. I simply picked a couple albums (TLLDOB for the Gabriel-era "silver" discs, and Duke for the Phil-era "white" discs) that I wanted as 1994 remasters, and the others are either the original U.S. issue or imports. My original stance remains the same... since the largest benefit of the remasters is 5.1 surround, I feel like I'm covered just by keeping the DVDs. I know some people actually go for the SACD versions, and thereby have two discs of 5.1 for each album, and thats OKAY... I just don't feel the need to do that.

As far as the core Genesis albums, live or studio, the fact that I'm starting to seriously consider buying mini-LPs does complicate things a bit. I would definitely prefer not to get the "boxed set" mini-LPs... just the 1994 remasters. When it comes to TLLDOB or Duke, I don't really know what I'd do if I could find cheap remaster mini-LPs when I already have remaster CDs for those albums, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. For anyone who is interested, the thing that turned me on to mini-LPs is that I recently bought a mini-LP version of Smallcreep's Day because my U.S. CD not only had the "erroneous" track order (actually a deliberate reversal, from what I'm reading now) but the CD booklet has generic text instead of the original typography from the album cover. So yes, now I have two CDs of that album, but one is a mini-LP with the original track order, and my other CD is the semi-picture-disc Passport release. It's still possible that I may combine those two, but I don't like cardboard and paper sleeves as a packaging medium because they can scratch the disc.

This is just a recent shift in my collecting style... what I used to see as "fat" I now consider "richness" in my collection, especially since I can take a 1/4" jewel case and reduce it to a mere 1/16" Viewpak, keeping everything that I consider important. My opinion is that if CDs were originally packaged in Viewpaks rather than jewel boxes, there would have never been a need for that rear insert. After all, albums had a front cover and a back cover, and with early CD releases, the front and back of the booklet reproduced that artwork, and the rear insert only repeated it. The same still holds true for newer releases, but I do understand that there are exceptions... I'm hoping that DiscSox will be a good solution for containing the "stuck" CDs I have where the track list only appears on the j-card. Even if I end up liking them, it won't mean I'll start keeping redundant j-cards and storing all my CDs in DiscSox... Viewpaks are much cheaper and more compact, so unless there's something vital on the j-card, I won't be keeping it.

I know I may seem a bit pedantic about all this, and I write with some authority on the subject. I have been collecting for about 25 years now, and I really do enjoy the minutiae that most people ignore or think I'm crazy for caring about. Even so, I don't know why people think I'm talking about what should be important to anyone else. Furthermore, I really wonder why my use of "OCD" gets people starting to analyze my collecting style against what they might consider OCD behaviour, and questioning whether someone who is OCD might do the things I do. OCD is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder... I suppose I do obsess over the little details, but I'm not really compelled to do anything without consciously choosing to do so, and I wouldn't classify my collecting as a disorder. I probably do have very mild tendencies that some OCD people have, and I have seen people with much stronger "tendencies" than myself, so I feel a bit qualified in describing my collecting as OCD.

Anyway, the basic principle of my collecting style has always been that I'm a collector, not an archivist. Even if I had unlimited storage space, I wouldn't want to keep everything. These days, I do actually listen to my collection on my iPod touch pretty much exclusively, partially because the CD player in my car is going bad, and also because Viewpaks aren't really robust enough to leave in the car on a hot day. I used to bring whatever CD I was listening to into my office when I came to work, but on normal shopping trips, it wasn't convenient to do that. Regardless, I still like to flip through my collection (now more than ever, actually) and it's much more pleasant with Viewpaks in boxes... for ME. Others may prefer the full packaging, and I can see that point. Going to record stores and collector shows, it is nice to see full packaging, but I wouldn't want to store it all. Please understand that I'm just recounting how I go about things... I'm not saying anybody else is wrong, and I'm not asking whether I'm "doing it right" or not.

Hope this gives everyone a better view of where I'm coming from, and what I enjoy about collecting... I do enjoy reading about how others do it. Tulyar, I can't knock you for storing your collection where it's hard to get to... that probably keeps it safe from little hands, or those who might make off with some of it!

Author:  Tulyar [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

dvdgenesis wrote:
Umm... (pauses for a long while contemplating the intent of the last post)...

It really depends on what you consider "OCD", and I understand that it's a bit of an insult to anyone who actually suffers from that condition for me or anyone else to joke about it, so let me just explain it this way:

Thanks for sharing that - I found it really interesting! :)
As we all well know, it can sometimes be difficult to tell whether people are being serious/ironic/sarcastic/making a joke on internet forums and emails. Smileys can sometimes help a little bit, but occasionally make things worse!
So in all honesty, without any hint of anything negative or mocking, I was intrigued by your initial comment about viewpaks and rear j-cards, and interested in your further explanation.

I agree with your comment about the joking misuse of the names of serious conditions such as OCD. But having said that, I think that the kind of people who post on internet forums about a band like Genesis will probably have a certain amount of pedantry and obsessiveness in their nature (I know I do) - it kind of goes with the territory! Maybe we should have a thread where everyone comes clean about the things they get pedantic about! (Or probably not...)
One of mine is naming and sorting music files on the computer, getting albums in folders and all in the right order, etc. I have to be consistent - something my wife finds mildly amusing!

By the way - davidraphael and Bablylon5 - I'm impressed by the way you are picking up on the original thing about inner sleeves, and all the research. Thanks for the recent comments and information! :D

Author:  dvdgenesis [ Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

LOL, yes... I think we can all exhibit symptoms of OCD, and few true collectors are without some underlying tendencies of that nature.

If I understand correctly what you mean, I'm the same way when it comes to organizing albums and songs in my iTunes library. And, at least about other things I do, my wife is also highly amused by my... er, um, "tendencies". I think the key word, however, is "right". I have never understood people who find it amusing when someone has to have something "right", whether it's the correct spelling of an artist's name or album title, or if it's ordering at a restaurant and making sure the staff gets the order right. It's almost as if people look at "wrong" and "right" as just two possible ways of doing things that are completely equal and interchangeable... some people do things one way, some people do them the other, or when you do something, it might be done one of those ways or the other, just by chance. Then when someone comes along and wants things "right", not "wrong", people tend to get upset. Sooo strange. Oh, well. :roll:

Anyway, glad you made it through my lengthy explanation and understand where I'm coming from. I second the kudos to dR and B5... very interesting! :)

Author:  Tulyar [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

Interesting article on the BBC News Magazine today, which relates to a small sub-thread earlier in this discussion:

Author:  dvdgenesis [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

Tulyar wrote:
Interesting article on the BBC News Magazine today, which relates to a small sub-thread earlier in this discussion:

Interesting. I think there's two sides to it... as I've mentioned before, I've met collectors who weren't full-blown OCD but definitely had compulsions that begged for psychiatric analysis. On the other hand, it can fuel misunderstanding among family members... I certainly don't want anyone assuming that ALL collecting behavior is "hoarding" and that any time I want something done correctly I'm just "being OCD".

Author:  Squonkendos [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

These may differ from others but this is my collection of Genesis LPs (UK versions)

FGTR - paper inner, lyric sheet. (A friend of mine has this album,and have seen the inner lyric sheet)
Trespass - gatefold sleeve, paper inner, lyric sheet.
NC - gatefold sleeve with lyrics inside, paper inner.
Foxtrot - gatefold sleeve with lyrics inside, paper inner.
Live – paper inner

From SEBTP onwards LPs bought were when released

SEBTP - paper inner, lyric sheet.
Lamb - gatefold sleeve with story inside. Lyrics printed on inner sleeves.
ATOTT - gatefold sleeve with lyrics inside. Printed inner with pictures
W&W - Lyrics printed on the inner sleeve
Seconds Out – printed pictures on inner sleeves
ATTWT - gatefold sleeve with lyrics inside, paper inner.
Duke - gatefold sleeve with lyrics inside, paper inner.
Abacab - printed inner sleeve with photo of band, no lyrics.
TSL - gatefold sleeve with paper inners
Genesis - lyrics printed on inner sleeve.

I didn’t buy Genesis vinyl LPs after 1985

Author:  parrotmonkey87 [ Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Printed inner sleeves

Here is my OCD take on what comes with what Genesis record: :D

From Genesis To Revelation – Company inner sleeve, lyric insert
Trespass – Gatefold, plain white or company inner sleeve, lyric insert.
Nursery Cryme – Gatefold w/lyrics, plain white or company inner sleeve
Foxtrot – Gatefold w/lyrics, plain white or company inner sleeve
Genesis Live – Plain white or company inner sleeve
Selling England By The Pound – Plain white or company inner sleeve, insert w/lyrics (I’ve seen variants with or without a photo of the band, as well as different background colors)
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway – Gatefold, custom inner sleeves w/lyrics, combination of custom and record company labels
A Trick of the Tail – Gatefold w/lyrics, custom inner sleeve
Wind and Wuthering – Custom inner sleeve w/lyrics
Seconds Out – Gatefold, custom inner sleeve, custom labels
And Then There Were Three – Gatefold w/ lyrics, plain white inner sleeve
Duke – Gatefold /w lyrics, plain white inner sleeve, custom label
ABACAB – Custom inner sleeve, custom label, only studio album with NO PRINTED LYRICS
Three Sides Live – Gatefold, plain white inner sleeves, custom labels, two versions with different tracks on side 4.
Genesis – Custom inner sleeve w/ lyrics, custom labels only in certain countries.
Invisible Touch – Custom inner sleeve w/lyrics, custom labels, some countries featured an embossed cover. CD booklet (original) features more photos and graphics.
We Can’t Dance – Custom inner sleeves with lyrics, custom labels. Original CD booklet features more artwork.
The Way We Walk – Vol. 1 – The Shorts – Custom Inner sleeve, custom labels, ad insert for Vol. 2
The Way We Walk – Vol. 2 – The Longs – Custom Inner sleeve, custom labels (no “Drum Duet” as on CD versions)
Calling All Stations – Gatefold, custom inner sleeves w/ lyrics, custom labels, side 4 has no music but an etched image of the band.

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