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 Torrent software information update. 
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Post Torrent software information update.
As we're all aware, this software has had it's problems with ratios. This is the main reason that I haven't implemented any restrictions on downloads as yet.

However, a new release of the software is immenent, which I'm hoping will fix some problems (and will no doubt create new ones!). Once they've got the ratio problem sorted out, people are going to have to get their houses in order or risk getting banned.

Rest assured though, I won't do anything until I'm sure that the software has been fixed

I'll post an update when I've done some testing with it when it gets released.

Cheers
Simon


Last edited by spfunnell on Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:26 pm
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Post Hit and Runners
Excellent, this is a good plan.

I'd like to believe that people actually don't understand that they need to stay on the torrent even after it's finished downloading, but I fear that a lot of people actually just dont care!

Once the ratio updating is sorted I think we will take great delight in banning people who don't pull their weight!

:lol:

James

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Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:34 am
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What share ratio will you go for? I think Dime is quite low, like .25

Dime has an enforcement cycle which checks the ratio after every 10GB or so. I donated to dime and got an extension till 100GB.
Another interesting thing about dime is that after donating you can see the respective download and upload rates of seeders and leechers. This can help you decide whether to join a torrent or not.

The Tori Amos torrent site gives you the option of being informed when a new torrent is uploaded. This is a nice feature.

It's going very well and will only get better. Thanks for all your hard work.

Steve Ll


Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:13 pm
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Hey Steve,

Not sure what ratio we'd go for - honestly I think anyone with a ratio of less than 0.5 isn't really trying hard enough, but I don't know how easy that would be to enforce...

You know you can be informed by email when new torrents go up don't you?

I think it's from your user CP, you can tick all the boxes to be told about all torrents, or just the ones you're interested in!

James

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Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:41 am
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I know what you mean about people leaping off torrents as soon as they've reached 100%, but what I would say is that there are two sides to that. I often stop uploading when I've d/l'ed a whole show, but that's when there are still 10+ others uploading. On the basis that the d/load speed should be good for new leeches at that point, I think I'm far more use to others by seeding less populated torrents where there may be only one or two uploaders. We've all got (so it seems) only about 30kb/s upload speed to play with, so better I say to spread that where there's a greater need than to be seeder no.17 on a torrent that the world and his wife is seeding anyway.....

Just my 2 pennorth....

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Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:01 pm
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I agree with most of the comments, but some of the problems involved with jumping off is that many others may jump off too, therefore leaving the torrent to slowly amble on.
Obviously the best way would be to simply torrent to 100%, but this could be an impossibility, especially if someone else has shared to a ratio of say 4.0.
So theres quite a bit of give and take invloved. I also think Dimes 0.25 is too low I think that 0.5 would be healthier.
It's just down to ettiquette I think limit how many torrents you have running at once etc.


Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:12 am
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Si_M wrote:
I agree with most of the comments, but some of the problems involved with jumping off is that many others may jump off too, therefore leaving the torrent to slowly amble on.
Obviously the best way would be to simply torrent to 100%, but this could be an impossibility, especially if someone else has shared to a ratio of say 4.0.
So theres quite a bit of give and take invloved. I also think Dimes 0.25 is too low I think that 0.5 would be healthier.
It's just down to ettiquette I think limit how many torrents you have running at once etc.

I think the ratio issue is a real problem when we're dealing with large sets of files, especially DVDs - I just had to abandon something that was over a gig and it had gotten to about 80%, I believe, but had stopped downloading for a couple of days. I don't have unlimited space, so I have to delete things like that, which makes them obviously unavailable for further leeching by others. You can't just make a blanket statement that everyone who shares must have an equal up/down amount - it simply will not work and I guarantee the Genesis Movement torrent site will wither and die pretty quickly. We have to be realistic here - if you're the last one to jump on a DVD torrent, no one's going to grab that 4gb and you're left with a negative ratio - even if you keep it available forever. There's a reason why Dime goes with 25% - it may encourage leechers to suck and run, but it's the most fair way to go for everyone.


Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:38 pm
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Post 
tcj wrote:
Si_M wrote:
Obviously the best way would be to simply torrent to 100%, but this could be an impossibility, especially if someone else has shared to a ratio of say 4.0.
So theres quite a bit of give and take invloved. .

You can't just make a blanket statement that everyone who shares must have an equal up/down amount - it simply will not work and I guarantee the Genesis Movement torrent site will wither and die pretty quickly.


No blanket statement there my friend, just an observation that the ideal would be to seed to 100%

Maybe more monitoring of blatant leeching ie as soon as d/l finished jumping off (with a poor ratio also) but try policing that one

There's no easy solution


Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:14 am
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I agree that there's no easy solution. At the moment the plan seems to be as follows;

1. Await the next release of the software and test (due this side of Christmas, but who knows....

2. Implement in live environment and monitor people's ratios.

3. Get some general consensus as to what would be a fair ratio to go for, eg. no ratio / 1:4 / 1:2 / 1:1 (probably do a poll on that with some validation of the voters)

4. Implement ratios.

I don't actually want to totally ban leechers, however, the software does have a 'waiting' system that is currently switched off. IE. if your ratio is less than say 0.25, you have to wait 24 hours for the download, 0.5 wait 12 hours, >1 no wait etc. I may go with that.

At that point, I'll probably be looking to get another mod on side to help.

Cheers
Simon

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Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:44 pm
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I think the problem is actually more with people jumping off as soon as they've completed, rather than just not seeding as much as they leech...

I'd prefer someone to seed for 2 days after completing but only managing to put back half as much as they took, rather than uploading lots right through the download but then jumping off the minute they hit 100%.

Trouble is, that's nigh on impossible to enforce unless you're watching eagle-eyed for every torrent to complete...

It just annoys me when people spend ages getting the torrents up here, leaving once there are a few seeders, and then having to come back and seed again in a week when the selfish few leave the others stranded again.

James

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Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:54 pm
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Post Just an Idea
Here's what I do:

I tend to Download early evening and I LEAVE MY COMPUTER ON ALL NIGHT SEEDING. I work from home, so I am here all the time during the day. I tend to Upload in the morning US Eastern time because I notice seeders slow down in the daytime. In the afternoon, I start leeching again because all the Europeans are getting home and seeding.

It may be useful to see who is in Europe and who is in North America and take advantage of the time difference. US users are seeding during the day and Europe is seeding at night. It would probably clean up traffic a bit. For a full six hours there would be no overlap. You can leech and seed a whole lot in that 6 hours. A sort of off the record schedule system. If enough of us band together, it could actually work.

Alos if you are not in front of your computer, turn the upload up as high as your system will go. I have mine set to 80-83 KB/s during the overnight and 50 or better during the day.



That is all for now.

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Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:31 pm
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Post 
LivingForever wrote:
I think the problem is actually more with people jumping off as soon as they've completed, rather than just not seeding as much as they leech...

I'd prefer someone to seed for 2 days after completing but only managing to put back half as much as they took, rather than uploading lots right through the download but then jumping off the minute they hit 100%.

Trouble is, that's nigh on impossible to enforce unless you're watching eagle-eyed for every torrent to complete...

It just annoys me when people spend ages getting the torrents up here, leaving once there are a few seeders, and then having to come back and seed again in a week when the selfish few leave the others stranded again.

James


Well, I agree with James.

Having uploaded many dvd's, as well as double dvd's, I for one know how it feels after 2-3 days of uploading, when 9 of the 10 first leachers who have completed the download just cut and run. Not to mention the feelings of those leaching in line, waiting for that sought after dvd.

Typically:

You post a new torrent, e.g. a 7,8 Gigabyte double dvd, then you check on it every now and then. You start to remember some of the id's of the leachers and watch them day by day getting closer to the completion. And you think, I know this dvd is good - I think they will most likely too. Maybe, some of them will be happy even. Sort of.... :-D

As you realise the upload is eating away on your bandwidth, you hope that once the 5-10 first leachers complete their downloads you will get some help. But usually that doesn't happen. They jump off. And you can be left uploading as much as 25-30, or even 45 Gigabyte before there are enough seeders to take over a 7,8 Gigabyte double dvd. You may even have to come back and seed your own torrent within a week.

So...

I've uploaded some at Dime, and, quite frankly, this never happened to me there (except once). So, maybe many Genesis fans are new to bit torrenting and the principals of it. At least, that is what I also like to believe.

I don't excpect praise and glory for uploading. But as have been said earlier in the shoutbox, just a few comments and maybe even just a little thank you. But most of all, I'd like to see gratitude in the form of concrete help by staying on the torrent and seeding after a completed download.

Now, I can really (!) understand that one would be extremely curious on that magnificent download just completed. But, these days you can actually watch some portions of it while still on seed, by just opening the vob-files in Mediaplayer or any other updated software. That way you get a feel for what is on the dvd, after which you can stay on seed for another 2-3 days.

I would really like appreciate it if many leachers could estimate their download time. Let's say you think your download will take 3-4 days, then calculate on a time estimate that would include seeding, and then set your frame of mind to a total of 5-7 days before you actually jump on. It's not hard, it's not the end of the world. You just have to wait a little tiny bit longer. For some of the footage we've waited 20 years, so another day or two shouldn't be a problem.

.... I know I usually do, and no, it's no big deal. It's not so hard to wait... really...

To quote Phil: "Wait for it...!!!"

Gonna stop ranting now! :-D

Cheers!

Johan


Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:14 pm
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