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 Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski 
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:49 pm
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Post Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
Could anyone tell me if these are different recordings, Hogweeds doesn't really give any information about the identity of the recorder. I'm interested in creating a 2 source matrix if the recordings are of different sources. I have done quite a few matrixes and masters of uncirculated Grateful Dead shows over at etree and Lossless Legs and would absolutely love to do a Lamb show.
Could anyone give me some info on the Hogweeds version that is in the know? Thanks!


Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
Hogweed 14 is described here (an obsolete torrent) and available here. The Lampinski tape is available here and here. Notice that the comment thread for torrent 4064 (the first of the Lampinski torrents) contains a discussion of creating a matrix with HW14, and that suggests that they are distinct... presumably. Can someone familiar with these give more information?

I'm not familiar with either of these recordings, but I suggest you compare the end of "Carpet Crawlers" in each. Paul Russell's book mentions two different recordings of this show. The one he prefers is an audience recording with "excellent sound balance and plenty of kick", at least one copy of which was "cleaned up in a studio". In this version, Carpet Crawlers "has a tiny cut at the end", and there is a second tiny edit at some other point (he doesn't say when). Other than these two tiny edits, the recording is complete, including both encores.

Russell also mentions the existence of a different recording -- "a very good soundboard/ambience recording" -- but he doesn't describe this one.

Good luck on your project: I would love to hear the results!

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Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:12 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
Thanks Babylon 5 for your help, maybe someone will be able to clear this up, in the mean time I'll do some of my own investigating through the wonders of technology, and finally, my ears! I will certainly be sharing any work on Genesis here first, in the mean time, I'm currently working on a Steely Dan matrix, and have promised to do a a Dead matrix from '81 by request. After these prior commitments I will start on this Lamb project. :fun: :thumbsup:


Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
There was also a PRRPGS (025) remaster of the Dan L tape which had a load of info on the differences between it and the other (HW14 - poss Joe Maloney? tape) - not sure what the remaster did - but it may have been speed correction

I'll search my archive and see if I can find the comments

**edit - ok here is the text file - hope all this fits - sorry for the long post :roll:

This also tells you what they did to the Dan L tape

The Lampinski Lamb

Genesis fans were blessed in 2009 by the release of a previously un-circulated, master sourced tape of Genesis playing The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, recorded in Providence, Rhode Island on December 8th, 1974. From Carl and Kev, the ones responsible for the torrent release….

“Carl was up in Foxboro, Mass. to see John Wetton and The School Of Rock All-Stars, and started talking with the guy sitting next to him. Turns out they had more than a little common musical ground, starting with King Crimson and it worked rapidly downhill from there. Shockingly, the topic of tapes came up and it just so happens this guy taped a bunch of shows in the 1970s that he essentially kept to himself. This series of torrents represents the fruits of Carl's labor - multiple trips to Dan's house to pick up tapes, lovingly and carefully transfer the recordings and then prepare them for our collective listening pleasure.

This show has circulated before <from a different source>, and is one of the most legendary known Lamb recordings. This torrent represents an equally excellent recording from Dan Lampinski’s master tapes that have never circulated. Carl and I were shocked when we discovered this. We had assumed that the glasnost radio and Hogweeds #14 versions were from Dan's recording, but close listening to the intro and crowd noises reveal this to be untrue.”

Could this be? The Hogweed remaster #14, from this date and venue has always been considered one of the best Lamb audience recordings and Mr. Lampinski’s recordings already had a reputation for excellence. Is it possible that two experienced tapers were at this show? Hogweed 14 was known to be from a 1st generation tape. Another 1st generation version (un-remastered) was torrented by the well-respected DIME member Glasnostrd19. They both seem to be the same source. But where did these 1st generation sources come from. The Hogweed 14 informational booklet contains the following memories from someone that was there….

I met the taper of this show while waiting in line to see Robert Fripp on his solo/spoken word 'Frippertronics' tour in the spring of 1983 in Boston, Mass. USA. As is normal to pass time, I struck up a conversation with the people around me. After a bit, I began talking to an older guy (I was 20 and he was almost 30) about concerts we'd seen, etc. One thing led to another and I came to find out that he was an avid taper of shows in the Boston area. He'd been recording concerts since the mid 1970s and was the first person I'd met who taped non-Grateful Dead shows. After the show, we exchanged names and numbers in order to do some tape trading. A few weeks passed and my room mate and I went to his apartment. It was at this point that I realized that this guy had recorded some great shows. But that's all he seemed to do. His job was to record shows for you and I to enjoy. Over the last two decades, I've taken great pleasure in this work. Now you too will enjoy this man's work when you listen to….. David Campbell

Glasnostrd19 has written this about his tape….
“Way back in the late 70's I did one trade with a guy in R.I. who was a big fan of Genesis and U.K., and made three recordings that he sent me 1st gen. copies of. This <Genesis Providence recording> may sound even better than the soundboard, since it was apparently recorded with some of the best equipment available in 1974. This is the 1st time I've posted my 1st gen. copy of it and it is the whole show. The only parts missing are the 1st few seconds of "chamber of 32 doors" for a tape flip, and the beginning of Peter's talk before the show starts. The second tape flip cut is un-noticeable to me in here. Thanks much to S.P. for this great Lamb recording.”

So, who was the taper for this 1st generation source? And is Lampinski’s tape really a different source? On the original DIME forum of the Lampinski release, DIME member mattbea61 posed the question….

“Many thanks for uploading this and all the previous recordings from this taper. Exciting times indeed BUT I have to ask, how can you be sure this <Lampinski> and the version previously upped by glasnostrd19 are not one and the same. The same cuts are evidence enough but the fact that glasnostrd19 traded for his copy from a guy in RI (not the taper) and is merely using his best guess as to the equipment used give me cause to seriously doubt these are two different recordings. Can anyone having grabbed and listened to both help out and help me decide which to get?”

DIME member simonmarsden responded with the answer, “The other was a Joe Maloney tape if I remember correctly”. DIME member Carlthulhu then provided some evidence that the two recordings were, indeed, different…

“There is some audience participation at the end of Watcher of the Skies on the glasnostrd19 version that is not on the Lampinski version, for anyone looking to verify that they are two different sources”. PRRP has verified this to be true. A fan yells “woo woo woo woo” which is heard on the Glasnostrd19 source and Hogweed 14, but not on Lampinski. Also, in the Rael story just before Back in NYC, 9 seconds after Gabriel starts the story there is an audience member’s cough heard in the Hogweed version that is not heard in Lampinski, Finally, during this same Rael story, after Gabriel says, “78 Seconds, flat” there is a yelp from an audience member who is close to Lampinski’s microphones and is clearly heard. This yelp is not heard well at all in the Hogweed version. So, two sources exist from two excellent tapers at the same concert. This is similar to the time Dan Lampinski recorded Pink Floyd in Boston on June 18th, 1975. Also in that audience was Steve Hopkins and now both taper’s recordings of that show are available and both are equally outstanding.

This Genesis performance is legendary for the technical difficulties experienced by the band. On the Lampinski source, the show begins with Peter Gabriel explaining how the performance has been delayed by rain water dripping onto the stage and causing an electrical hazard. Despite no fatal consequences, this rain water still causes all sorts of problems for the synthesizer during the second half of the show. Undesired synthesizer noises begin during the Rael story and then can be heard during Lilywhite Lillith, the beginning of Waiting Room, and The Supernatural Anaesthetist. Confirming this show’s delay, DIME member glampins provides this added information…..

“<Here is> another little tidbit of information on this show from Dan Lampinski's brother. It was a miserable night in Providence with snow and then heavy rain. Peter Gabriel refers to the rain leaking through the roof directly over the stage. It was quite a delay until the rain stopped and the tarps were removed from the gear. What Mr. Gabriel doesn't tell you is that directly across the street from the theater was a Dunkin Donuts. Genesis arranged for dozens and dozens of donuts and gallons of coffee to be brought into the lobby, all for free because of the delay. Dan convinced me to go to this concert despite the fact that I had no idea what the Lamb was. I was mesmerized and to this day I still say it was the single best concert I have ever seen. Until now I had not heard this recording. In fact, I doubt Dan had ever heard it either. Enjoy!”

PRRP Staff

Notes from the Re-Master

Obviously, this remaster project begins with the torrented flac files from Dan Lampinski’s show. It is interesting that this recording captures part of the explanation for the delay from Gabriel which is not on the Joe Maloney tape. Both tapers then started their recordings of the show at approximately the same time, half way through the Rael Introduction. Maloney’s tape starts about 2 seconds earlier that Lampinski’s so those two seconds were added to Lampinski’s recording to make it more complete. The tape flips mentioned above occurred with uncanny synchrony between the two tapers, leading to the initial –incorrect- assumption that the two were the same. Tape flips were repaired here so that the full, complete show is available.

The first significant step in the remastering was the speed correction. PRRP has remastered other Lampinski recordings and, despite their outstanding quality, they often run too slow or too fast. Here again, this recording was off speed and that was easily corrected. Tonality was re-balanced given the acoustic characteristics of the venue and the location of the taper. Clicks and pops were found and repaired easily. A number of points find undesirable noises coming from the synthesizer on stage. Gabriel references these at least once during the monologue but they can be heard intermittently during lilywhite lillith, waiting room, and supernatural anesthetist. These were not altered because they were not tape flaws. Dynamic adjustments were made to enhance the recording and repair the effects of auto-record circuitry. Re-tracking was done using standard references, splitting the show just before the second Rael story, but without fadeout for a seamless listening experience.




John


Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:02 am
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
The version that brother John61 referred to does not appear to exist here at the Movement torrent site. I just downloaded it from Dime. Should I upload a copy to the Movement site?

(Other than this version, Dime doesn't have any versions of the Providence 1974 show that aren't here as well.)

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Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:31 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
Didn't know it was not on the tracker, I thought I downloaded it from here - maybe it was Dime - it should be on the tracker as it's at least equal to the Hogweed tape - maybe a little better overall.


Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:44 am
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
Thanks guys for the invaluable input and info. I think a matrix of these two aud sources would certainly be worth the trouble, it's such a great show! I could be wrong, but I don't think there are any matrixes of a Lamb show. The ultimate would be a mix of a show that there are both sbd and aud versions of. Could you guys point me in the right direction here? It seem there are both sbd and auds of the Shrine show, but the aud is incomplete. On the new torrent from the West Palm Beach show in Jan. of '75, they mention an aud recording is in existence, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. The sbd is tasty from this show and it's well played, could make for an interesting project. Any other Lamb shows with easily available sbd and aud sources ?

Thanks again for your help and knowledge, I'll keep you posted on the matrix developments,

Dave


Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
There is an outstanding matrix by kaspergm using an OAM and a SBD from Phoenix, January 28 1975, which is, I might say, now one of my favourite Lamb shows. If you consider going further on this project for Providence 1974, I recommend you give a listen to the aforementioned matrix.


Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
Jack_Floyd wrote:
There is an outstanding matrix by kaspergm using an OAM and a SBD from Phoenix, January 28 1975, which is, I might say, now one of my favourite Lamb shows. If you consider going further on this project for Providence 1974, I recommend you give a listen to the aforementioned matrix.


Thanks for the heads up, I'm going to seek this out now, I mean right now !


Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
That Phoenix matrix is outstanding - if you could end up with something as good from Providence I for one would be delighted.

The Shrine show is available as a soundboard and an AUD - but as far as I'm aware there are only Lossy versions of the SBD circulating (from Wolfgangs Vault) apart from the official "version" from the Archive box set - I don't know how good the Aud version is - not heard that one.


Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:09 am
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
John61 wrote:
Didn't know it was not on the tracker, I thought I downloaded it from here - maybe it was Dime - it should be on the tracker as it's at least equal to the Hogweed tape - maybe a little better overall.

Okay, I have uploaded it to the Movement tracker here: http://torrent.genesis-movement.org/torrents-details.php?id=5545

Hopefully one of you will download it, since the tracker will delete it if no downloaders appear!

Update: Turns out the torrent was deleted because it duplicated http://torrent.genesis-movement.org/torrents-details.php?id=4567. I didn't find this in my search because the uploader put a space in PRRPGS, and there was no Lampinski mentioned in the title. My bad.

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Tue Aug 14, 2012 5:51 pm
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Post Re: Providence 8th Dec. 1974, Hogweeds 14 and Lampinski
Looks like there is a two source stereo remaster coming out as a farewell from the PRRP folks as a goodbye gift

Can't wait - their releases are usually spot on.


Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:51 am
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