View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:06 pm



Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Do I have everything? 
Author Message

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 474
Post Re: Do I have everything?
babylon5 wrote:
DVDGenesis, you asked about "all of Phil's and the band's officially-released output". Does that include the use of their songs in commercials?

Today I was flipping stations and discovered that Rush Limbaugh is using an instrumental bit from "Easy Lover" as his theme music. He used to use the bass riff from the Pretenders' "My City Was Gone". Is this an official release? :no:


Um, of course not. I'm talking about actual releases, specifically physical media. If Phil & Philip went back and recorded a special mix of the song just for Rush's show, it still wouldn't qualify unless it existed on some sort of promo CD single I could get my hands on.

In other words, if there's no possible way I could own it, I'm not asking people to suggest it. Just trying to see if there's not some obscure CD single out there that I haven't found yet. Probably just should have stuck with the discography. :(


Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:02 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 474
Post Re: Do I have everything?
linkst3r wrote:
I think Phil Collins' single "Groovy Kind of Love" is worth owning, because it features the soundtrack song "Big Noise", but in an instrumental version, which I really love.

And, no, I think Rush was probably just using "Easy Lover" for bumper music when returning from a commercial. His theme of choice (with Chrissie Hynde's blessing, since all of the money from him using it goes to PETA) remains The Pretenders' "My City Was Gone".

Link


I agree about "Groovy"... I have the 3" CD single, and have always loved "Big Noise" ever since the original 45 was released. Eventually I got the album and realized that the song existed with full vocals from Phil, so that's actually the version I prefer now.

As for the Chrissie Hynde thing, I think it's important to point out that even though Rush has her blessing now... it wasn't always that way. He originally said of the song, "it was icing on the cake that it was [written by] an environmentalist, animal rights wacko and was an anti-conservative song. It is anti-development, anti-capitalist, and here I am going to take a liberal song and make fun of [liberals] at the same time." and she was so ticked off that she demanded he stop using it. Only after he donated $100,000 to PETA did she let him keep using it.

It's all in the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_City_Was_Gone


Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:10 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:24 pm
Posts: 449
Location: Wales
Post Re: Do I have everything?
dvdgenesis wrote:
If you've got another theory you want to submit, I'd love to hear it. In '99, Phil was getting slagged off left and right (largely because of his work with Disney), and hasn't had the kind of longevity in the UK he has enjoyed elsewhere. The general public over there kind of look at him as a Michael Bolton type.

It's certainly true that the media and newspapers here in the UK did suddenly turn on Phil. I'm not sure when it happened. It might have been around the time of the crazy "Phil divorces his wife by fax" story. In 1985 (Live Aid) he could do no wrong. By 2000 he could do no right.
Partly this is the way of the UK press (and there's a big government enquiry into press ethics going on here at the moment) - they build people up then tear them apart. There was another (incorrect) story before the 1997 general election that Phil said he would leave the UK if Tony Blair became Prime Minister, because he didn't want to pay more taxes. Again, that generally didn't go down very well. The fact that he never said anything of the sort is irrelevant - why let the facts get in the way of a good story?
Nowadays the name Phil Collins is treated as a joke.

Michael Bolton? He's some sort of singer isn't he? I don't think people here put him and Phil in the same category. Apart from the fact that I know Michael Bolton is a singer, I don't think I know anything about him or would know any of his songs.

There's another misconception, which even the members of Genesis have, which is that Genesis fans hate Phil. That is utter nonsense. There is a tiny minority who take the "Genesis died in 1975" view but they are a single-figure percentage.
In the 2007 tour Genesis played about ten dates in Germany and only two in the UK, under the crazy misapprehension that no-one liked them here any more (that's what comes of reading the newspapers and believing them!). They were astonished when all the tickets for both shows sold out in about an hour - which is why they did the live cinema feed from Dusseldorf as a kind of appeasement to the UK fans whom the band had dramatically under-estimated.

Finally, the CC99 video. Could Phil's verse have been cut out simply because the song was too long for a video to be shown on TV? When do you ever see a pop video that lasts 5:40? :D

_________________
Old Henry walked past the pet shop that was never open, into the park which was never closed...


Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:55 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 474
Post Re: Do I have everything?
LOL... good points. :) I think the recent Murdoch scandal shows the true nature of "newspapers" in the UK.

You kind of got what I was saying about Michael Bolton without even knowing who he is. His name is quite literally a joke... in the movie Office Space. He's just known for schmaltzy, over-the-top romantic ballads and little else. Pretty much an insult for Phil to even be put in that category, but since he has done a few (or at least ballads that people in the UK view as such) he gets tarred with the same brush. Personally, I think at least some of it is based in reality, since artists can often count on "the ballad" on their album to become a hit in the U.S. even if none of the more uptempo songs catch on, and ballads don't seem to be as popular in the UK. Another example of what I was referring to is Celine Dion... she's a national treasure in Canada, but to most straight males in the U.S. she's a joke.

I can't say with 100% certainty that your theory about the length is wrong, but it's rather unlikely. The video was not cut for air in the U.S., and it remained cut on the DVD even though they could have included the full version. I'm not saying that the DVD had anything to do with it, just that if it the edit was only the "broadcast edit" then it wouldn't have ended up on the DVD. It very much seems like the "UK version", and since they obviously wanted to save time and money by keeping the content identical for all territories, we ended up with the "UK edit" as well (the DVD menus still say The Cinema Show even on the U.S. release). Seemed pretty transparently a knock against Phil to me, but I'm still willing to admit I'm wrong in light of convincing evidence otherwise.


Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:31 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:07 pm
Posts: 12
Post Re: Do I have everything?
found the complete version of CC '99

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSzI2MbwEl8


Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:59 am
Profile

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 474
Post Re: Do I have everything?
bestj wrote:
found the complete version of CC '99

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSzI2MbwEl8


Yep, and it was also released on a GMDVD years ago... I think it was the one with The Videos I & II. Either that one or the one with the Archive 2 documentary.


Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:57 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 12:50 am
Posts: 316
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: Do I have everything?
Wow -- I've never seen the CC '99 video (short or long). I considered the song something of an abomination when it came out, and while I do listen to Genesis' post-1982 albums (or at least, to selected tracks from them), I have paid very little attention to their official video releases, although I still enjoy watching concert videos of them.

Now I'm full of questions about CC '99.

  • Were all the tracks re-recorded? Most of the tracks are clearly new. But Steve's guitar lines seem to be just as they were on the original. (Which makes it even odder for Mike to add some guitar -- not bass! -- since Mike is using his guitar sound that never was used in Genesis songs before 1983.)
  • Who is the video aimed at? There are fleeting glimpses of Peter, Phil, and Mike from the 1970s that no one but a hardcore Genesis afficionado would recognize because they each last less than a second. That would suggest that it's aimed only at old Genesis fans... but that seems hard to believe.
  • Peter is obviously the primary carpet crawler in the tube. But who's the crawler with white hair that looks like Timothy Leary?

_________________
- babylon5


Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:41 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:54 pm
Posts: 574
Location: U.K.
Post Re: Do I have everything?
babylon5 wrote:
Wow -- I've never seen the CC '99 video (short or long). I considered the song something of an abomination when it came out, and while I do listen to Genesis' post-1982 albums (or at least, to selected tracks from them), I have paid very little attention to their official video releases, although I still enjoy watching concert videos of them.

Now I'm full of questions about CC '99.

  • Were all the tracks re-recorded? Most of the tracks are clearly new. But Steve's guitar lines seem to be just as they were on the original. (Which makes it even odder for Mike to add some guitar -- not bass! -- since Mike is using his guitar sound that never was used in Genesis songs before 1983.)



here is the answew to one of the questions..

All the tracks were re-recorded, Steve stated in an interview that he re-done all his guitar parts..so they were all new..

_________________
There's an angel standing in the sun,and he's crying with a loud voice


Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:26 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:54 pm
Posts: 574
Location: U.K.
Post Re: Do I have everything?
OK, i have found the interview, it was from 2007

Here's the relevent bit

This was one of the questions to Steve


Did you redo the guitars for Carpet Crawlers 1999 in the DVD Video show?

"Yes but we all worked separately on this project and didn’t actually record it together in a studio as a band. Our tracks were then given to Trevor Horn to mix. Although it came off quite well, I felt the floating quality you get as a band was absent. I recorded a lot of rhythm heavy guitar work but most of it was sadly left off of the final recording."


Here's the link to the whole interview..if anyones interested...

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editori ... -hackett-1

_________________
There's an angel standing in the sun,and he's crying with a loud voice


Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:35 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 474
Post Re: Do I have everything?
I can definitely see why CC99 might have been looked at as an "abomination", since it's very much a Trevor Horn production and doesn't necessarily sound like Genesis. I like it a lot though, and felt that Phil coming in for "mild-mannered Supermen..." was AWESOME. Without that bit, not only is the song incomplete, the concept of a "reunion single" is all but ruined (remember, this was 8 years before the actual reunion tour).

As for the video, it's definitely aimed at the old fans... an odd move to promote a "hits" album, which are typically for casual fans of, well, "the hits". It's a bit more clear when you realize that the song was actually recorded for the Archive project, which was of course for the diehard fans. No idea why it wasn't included on either set, but I think it ties up the hits album nicely, and it definitely serves as a "carrot" to make those of us who own all the albums buy a hits compilation.

No idea who the old man was, and it's most likely just down to a varied cast of extras. If anything, I guess he could have been a nod to "old Henry" from "The Musical Box". I thought it was interesting that they obviously tried to find a PG lookalike for the lead character, when if they knew anything about the story it should have been a Latino. Of course Rael had always been portrayed by Peter, so I get that they wanted people to see Peter as the lead character in the video.


Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:30 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:24 pm
Posts: 449
Location: Wales
Post Re: Do I have everything?
I like CC99 because it is both sufficiently recognisable and sufficiently different to the original to make it worth doing.
Like dvdgenesis, I like the way Phil comes in with the mild-mannered supermen, although I do think he sounds very nasal, like he had a bad cold when recording it!
I also like Peter's trademark 'vocal noises' at the end, setting it very much in his solo career era.

Was there ever a plan for Ray to sing a verse? And if so, what would people have thought of that?

As for the video - I assume b5 wasn't actually suggesting Peter appears in the video (apart from the old clips that intersperse it). I think the actors crawling are not supposed to represent anyone or anything, and the video makers probably barely even listened to the lyrics. Where's the carpet? :wink:
I definitely don't think there's anything in there about Rael or the Lamb story.
Did the band have anything at all to do with the video? If they didn't even get together to play the music, I doubt very much any of them had any input to the video.
Although, having said that, the style of photography at the end, on the beach, is a bit reminiscent of the style of Peter's Lovetown and Growing Up videos.

One last point - I'm sure I read somewhere way back in 1999 that Trevor Horn also brought in some session musicians to play on the track.... :shock:

_________________
Old Henry walked past the pet shop that was never open, into the park which was never closed...


Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:23 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 12:50 am
Posts: 316
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: Do I have everything?
Tulyar wrote:
As for the video - I assume b5 wasn't actually suggesting Peter appears in the video (apart from the old clips that intersperse it). I think the actors crawling are not supposed to represent anyone or anything, and the video makers probably barely even listened to the lyrics. Where's the carpet? :wink:

Actually, I did think that was Peter in the tube at 0:55 and 2:44. Watching a second time, I can see it's obviously not. Maybe that's what comes of watching on my computer instead of my TV. :redface:

Tulyar wrote:
I definitely don't think there's anything in there about Rael or the Lamb story.
Did the band have anything at all to do with the video? If they didn't even get together to play the music, I doubt very much any of them had any input to the video.
Although, having said that, the style of photography at the end, on the beach, is a bit reminiscent of the style of Peter's Lovetown and Growing Up videos.

I know nothing about the history, but it would amaze me if Peter has ever released a video that he didn't have significant input into.

I agree that the crawlers were in a red carpeted corridor, not a shiny plastic tube. But the tube reminds me a bit of the tube from which Slipper-Rael emerged during the Lamb show. Could the filmmaker have seen that clip? It's probably the most common clip from the original tour.

Tulyar wrote:
One last point - I'm sure I read somewhere way back in 1999 that Trevor Horn also brought in some session musicians to play on the track.... :shock:
Don't get me started on how Yes have let Trevor Horn take them over again.... :rant:

_________________
- babylon5


Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:47 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat May 19, 2007 12:56 pm
Posts: 474
Post Re: Do I have everything?
I have to say I love me some Trevor Horn... his production just hits my ear's sweet spot. I would hope that it's just our boys playing on CC99, but I wouldn't be surprised if Horn added some supplemental keyboards or other instrumentation.

It does seem that Phil is often fighting a cold or some other respiratory ailment, especially on tour where the skies often seem to open as if on cue (how could God possibly dislike a band named "Genesis"?) but I think around '99 his voice just sounded like that (much like Peter's head :wink: ). Listen to him hitting the high notes on the Tarzan soundtrack, and I think you'll hear much the same thing. Definitely possible that he actually had a cold, though... I assume they were on a pretty tight schedule with the recording of that.

I would have loved to hear Ray tacked on at the end singing his "you know, you know, it's true you know, you've got to get in to get out" ad-lib from the CAS tour. I'm not sure if they had actually cut ties with Ray at that point, but I'm pretty sure the North American tour had already been canceled, and there were probably some calls from Ray going unanswered, so even if they'd have asked he might not have wanted anything to do with it. Also, even though Phil didn't take over as singer until after The Lamb..., he was at least in the band at that point. Ray, however, had nothing to do with that song aside from singing it on tour.

Speaking of the CAS era, the CC99 video looks a bit like the other videos the band had done at the time, so I guess it's possible that someone hired the same director. I seriously doubt any of the band members had anything to do with the video, but Tony Smith or someone could have tapped the director of the CAS videos to handle it. Guess we could try to find out who directed it and see if that person had ever done any other videos for the band.


Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:13 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:20 pm
Posts: 818
Post Re: Do I have everything?
Quote:
I like CC99 because it is both sufficiently recognisable and sufficiently different to the original to make it worth doing.
Like dvdgenesis, I like the way Phil comes in with the mild-mannered supermen, although I do think he sounds very nasal, like he had a bad cold when recording it!
I also like Peter's trademark 'vocal noises' at the end, setting it very much in his solo career era.

Was there ever a plan for Ray to sing a verse? And if so, what would people have thought of that?

Rumour has it - at least what I heard - that it was not only planned but also recorded with Ray singing the last verse ("The porcelain manikin ..."), but that this part was later cut from the released version. I have no evidence of this being true, but indeed the last verse is missing (but then again, the fact that the last verse is missing could easily lead to the rise of such a rumour ...) - and as others have noticed, there have been attempts by Tony and/or Mike and/or Phil to downsize the emphasis on Ray's part with the band, so who knows?

On a different note, I always loved CC99, much more so than the original version. I think Peter's voice and vocal is better in the new mix, I think Phil's contribution as a counterpart to Peter works really well to create some dynamics in the song, and I always felt Peter sounded strained in the high registre when singing this part. I also think the tempo of the new version is better, the old one had a sort of rushed lilting rhytm (don't know how to put this into words) that made it feel a bit stressed on me.

_________________
Sometimes the truth hurts. That doesn't make it less true.


Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:18 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 12:50 am
Posts: 316
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: Do I have everything?
kaspergm wrote:
Rumour has it - at least what I heard - that it was not only planned but also recorded with Ray singing the last verse ("The porcelain manikin ..."), but that this part was later cut from the released version. I have no evidence of this being true, but indeed the last verse is missing (but then again, the fact that the last verse is missing could easily lead to the rise of such a rumour ...)

There were a couple years when Tony and Mike were hoping that the band with Ray would be just as successful as they had been in the past. It was during this era that Ray narrated the "Archive" documentary. It seems to me that if CC '99 was originally planned during this era, then they must have planned for Ray to be part of the project: after all, the whole goal during that time was to give Ray maximum exposure. Remember the dozens of radio and TV spots they did to promote CAS?

But then, if I recall correctly, when the Archive documentary was finally played on VH-1 in 1998, it contained Ray's narration but nowhere in the entire video did it say who the narrator was! Either they assumed that Ray would be so famous by this time that he would need no introduction, or they were already not returning his phone calls.

The missing final verse does seem to add more credibility to this theory. On the other hand, the band omitted the very first verse from 1976 to 2007. I was never sure why: did they hate that verse? was it too Gabriel-esque for Phil to sing? (They omitted it even at Milton Keynes in '82, but by then they were used to omitting it so maybe that's not significant.)

_________________
- babylon5


Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:36 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.